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does grover norquist have any credibility left at this point? is he a guy that can twist arms and threaten people and still be effective the way he has been in the past? >> no. let's be very clear what this little tour from grover norquist is about. this is a cry for relevance. that is the only thing we should be seeing in what he is saying. he is trying to prove that he is still relevant. remember, three weeks ago he was singing a dramatically different tune. now he's got even as andrea mitchell pointed out, some kind of alice in wonderland fantasy land about how voting to increase is really voting to decrease. it just doesn't hold water anymore. part of the power of grover norquist is his close relationship with karl rove. karl rove has also been crippled over the past year in the process. so the two of them are not so scary anymore. >> what i found absent from his conversation today was 39.6%. why wasn't he saying this is going to be a job killer? why wasn't he saying -- >> right. >> -- he can't raise taxes on the job creators? it's like he's
does grover norquist have any credibility left at this point? is he a guy that can twist arms and threaten people and still be effective the way he has been in the past? >> no. let's be very clear what this little tour from grover norquist is about. this is a cry for relevance. that is the only thing we should be seeing in what he is saying. he is trying to prove that he is still relevant. remember, three weeks ago he was singing a dramatically different tune. now he's got even as andrea...
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Jan 2, 2013
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this individual grover norquist who has sponsored this pledge i'm going to read a tweet from grover norquist that we've just seen here. he said the bush tax cuts lapsed at midnight last night. every republican voting for the senate bill is cutting taxes and keeping his or her pledge. and richard we talked about this in the -- >> it just passed, just passed. no more time remaining, it now has passed the house with the senate amendment. >> okay and now we're heading well over, just caution, let's wait until the gavel comes down but strange things can happen. right, 220 -- it is heading north. appears that the deal is done. we'll move on to the next fight here. what i said was, richard, you and i, a lot of us talked over the course of the last several weeks, going over the cliff would make it more feasible for republicans to vote. because after all, after midnight they were not voting to raise taxes, they're voting to cut taxes. and after not violating the pledge of grover norquist and not violating their core believes and their core principles they did have some problems with the lack of spend
this individual grover norquist who has sponsored this pledge i'm going to read a tweet from grover norquist that we've just seen here. he said the bush tax cuts lapsed at midnight last night. every republican voting for the senate bill is cutting taxes and keeping his or her pledge. and richard we talked about this in the -- >> it just passed, just passed. no more time remaining, it now has passed the house with the senate amendment. >> okay and now we're heading well over, just...
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. >> sam, is this the end of the road for grover norquist and his pledge? >> it's odd because grover was the one sort of outside government institution on the conservative side who agreed with speaker boehner's plan "b" which would have allowed taxes to go up above $1 million in income. all the other conservative groups say no. i think grover's pledge, i don't know where it goes from here. obviously is doesn't have as much teeth as is it did because there are people who are willing to buck it. >> i think the key thing with the grover pledge though is that republicans feel like they're in such a corner here, the house is in disarray, boehner doesn't really know where his caucus is going to go. they're not really worried about grover's pledge. they're more worried about rebuilding the party and surviving this horrible moment when they barely control one chamber. >> okay. so i want to run this by you. charles krauthammer from "the washington post" has suggested this kind of complicated theory that the president has a bigger plan here. wonder if we can play thi
. >> sam, is this the end of the road for grover norquist and his pledge? >> it's odd because grover was the one sort of outside government institution on the conservative side who agreed with speaker boehner's plan "b" which would have allowed taxes to go up above $1 million in income. all the other conservative groups say no. i think grover's pledge, i don't know where it goes from here. obviously is doesn't have as much teeth as is it did because there are people who...
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norquist or americans for tax reform, they will have a tax cut. i think people have been thinking all along that really if push comes to shove, we'll do it in the new year and that seems to be what's developing. >> it creates an interesting dynamic, you'd have a new congress sworn in on january 3rd and ordinarily everyone goes home, get your picture taken, that's it. you're essentially swearing in a new congress and moving to the floor. that's something we haven't seen in quite a while, i'd say in the modern era. >> one of the odd things on the first day is elect a speaker. the majority party puts up -- this time it would be john boehner. the minority puts up their chosen leader, this time nancy pelosi. it's usually pro forma, but this time it has a real weight to it, because one of the reasons we're in this situation right now is because we're waiting for john boehner to be reelected to speaker of the house before they make a move, because only if 16 or 17 republicans don't vote for the guy, he could lose. they just want to wait. >> that's, i thi
norquist or americans for tax reform, they will have a tax cut. i think people have been thinking all along that really if push comes to shove, we'll do it in the new year and that seems to be what's developing. >> it creates an interesting dynamic, you'd have a new congress sworn in on january 3rd and ordinarily everyone goes home, get your picture taken, that's it. you're essentially swearing in a new congress and moving to the floor. that's something we haven't seen in quite a while,...
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watch grover norquist's people go to work here. let's listen. >> i'm going to ask a question to everybody on the stage. say you had a deal, a real spending cuts deal. 10-1, as byron said. spending cuts to tax increases. speaker, you're already shaking your head. but who, on this stage, would walk away from that deal? when you raise your hand if you just feel so strongly about not raising taxes, you'd walk away on the 10 to 1 deal. >> joining me right now to review that list of greatness, former rnc chairman michael steele who never had a year like this. seriously, both msnbc contributors. that was a scene where you come from the roots of the republican party, sir. was that a good day or a bad day for the republicans when they went out there like lock step? >> i think it was a bad day. it was interesting that later on huntsman said, you know, i probably should have raised my hand and said i would have taken the 10 to 1 deal. i think he recognized after the fact that that was a definitive moment where he could have carved out a new s
watch grover norquist's people go to work here. let's listen. >> i'm going to ask a question to everybody on the stage. say you had a deal, a real spending cuts deal. 10-1, as byron said. spending cuts to tax increases. speaker, you're already shaking your head. but who, on this stage, would walk away from that deal? when you raise your hand if you just feel so strongly about not raising taxes, you'd walk away on the 10 to 1 deal. >> joining me right now to review that list of...
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and the pledge is slowly, not completely -- >> grover norquist. >> grover norquist anti-tax pledge which is no way to run a business, no way to run a government. revenues are important if you understand a balance sheet. that thing has haunted us for a long time. >> krystal ball, the biggest loser. >> mine has helped in part helped rupert murdoch which is karl rove. many people thought even if they didn't like him, he was very smart. he exposed himself to not be very smart on election night on the other network. >> we only have two people left who might please me by choosing donald trump. let's see what happens. your biggest loser of 2012? >> donald trump. it's not, it's not. >> correct! you get the ipad. >> i hate to disappoint you. it's sheldon adelson. >> yes. >> and the house lost big. >> that was great. >> steve kornacki, the biggest. >> i want an ipad, but my biggest loser is the name that was for generations the gold standard in public opinion polling. gallup. and for all of october right up to election day said romney has an advantage and is going to win this race. they had about
and the pledge is slowly, not completely -- >> grover norquist. >> grover norquist anti-tax pledge which is no way to run a business, no way to run a government. revenues are important if you understand a balance sheet. that thing has haunted us for a long time. >> krystal ball, the biggest loser. >> mine has helped in part helped rupert murdoch which is karl rove. many people thought even if they didn't like him, he was very smart. he exposed himself to not be very...
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. >> i want to hear from grover norquist because this logic is fantastic. passed by congress that raises taxes for the higher earners, extends tax cuts for many americans. the president reviewed a copy of the bill while vacationing in hawaii before directing it to be signed via auto pen. that's the signature machine that the presidents sometimes use while away from washington, far from a bipartisan public signing ceremony. look at this. >> it was special. he wanted to capture it. it was special. >> back at the capitol -- >> in wisconsin they were thinking about signing civil rights legislation with his hands, then decided use the auto pen. looks better for the history books. >> on the jetsons. >> there are several major issues -- >> rosie, by the way. >> -- awaiting the president's return including the impending fight over the debt ceiling. >> it's going to be ugly. >> meanwhile, grover norquist sat down with andrea mitchell yesterday where he insisted that republicans who backed the fiscal cliff deal did not, in fact, vote to increase taxes. >> no republic
. >> i want to hear from grover norquist because this logic is fantastic. passed by congress that raises taxes for the higher earners, extends tax cuts for many americans. the president reviewed a copy of the bill while vacationing in hawaii before directing it to be signed via auto pen. that's the signature machine that the presidents sometimes use while away from washington, far from a bipartisan public signing ceremony. look at this. >> it was special. he wanted to capture it. it...
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they've bought on to grover norquist's no new taxes. and that sort of has set the stage for a complete failure on the broader efforts to deal with taxes and spending. so to avoid this utterly upness artificial fiscal cliff crisis, all they need to do is approve something small. but it's something republicans remain reluctant to do, and will only do, if they do, at the last minute, after having then str t demonstrated to tea party supporters they did everything they could. >> i wonder if we should be surprised. do you see any short term way to fix this? what is your thoughts about the chances here? >> yeah, listen, there are fewer competitive seats. many more safe seats, largely as a result of an idealogical and geographical sorting. gerrymandering contributing it to, but it's by no means the main factor. the things that we can do in the long run, but in the short term, republicans have to feel that they have to change, they have to open their party, broaden the base if they are to avoid falling into permanent minority party status. >> t
they've bought on to grover norquist's no new taxes. and that sort of has set the stage for a complete failure on the broader efforts to deal with taxes and spending. so to avoid this utterly upness artificial fiscal cliff crisis, all they need to do is approve something small. but it's something republicans remain reluctant to do, and will only do, if they do, at the last minute, after having then str t demonstrated to tea party supporters they did everything they could. >> i wonder if...
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i'm looking at grover norquist who says we had an election. boehner was elected speaker. now lame duck obama should get over it. first of all, boehner wasn't elected peeker. and he's also implying that the president doesn't have a mandate. it's the president and the democrats who won the election. the president won by 5 million votes. democrats expanded their majority in the senate and the house democrats earned 1.4 34i8on votes than the gop candidates. boehner is e let the record reflect elected by the republican caucus. this is what makes me not know what they'll do. >> when i said in the top of the show, who's pulling thestri ini are the big donors. these people don't care if we go over the fiscal deadline. that's why they're so cavalier about it. they are trying to redistribute this country's wealth along the lines of more fuel for the wealthy. i think we've got to resist this because what they're trying to do is really make it so that the average american worker is cost competitive with the average chinese worker. we can't have that. we've got to have a society that
i'm looking at grover norquist who says we had an election. boehner was elected speaker. now lame duck obama should get over it. first of all, boehner wasn't elected peeker. and he's also implying that the president doesn't have a mandate. it's the president and the democrats who won the election. the president won by 5 million votes. democrats expanded their majority in the senate and the house democrats earned 1.4 34i8on votes than the gop candidates. boehner is e let the record reflect...
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grover norquist gave his blessing to the deal and justified it by saying republicans didn't technically raise taxes since the bush tax cuts expired on january 1st. he was on with our andrea mitchell today. look at what he had to say. >> no republican voted for tax increase. what happened was obama had the damocles over the people with the tax increase over the next decade that would happen automatically. the republicans are quite clear. they want the tax cuts extended for everyone. the president insisted on taking them away from some people. that'll hurt the economy. he got his tax increase, but he can't claim republican fingerprints on his tax increase. >> well, wait a second. i mean, we're not living in the alice in wonderland world here. there is a tax increase for wealthier americans. it's literally a tax increase. >> well, first of all -- >> rates are up. >> what happened yesterday was all the tax rates went up and then the republicans and congress together took them down for some people, not for everybody. >> steven, does that pass the smell test? if i were to run against a republ
grover norquist gave his blessing to the deal and justified it by saying republicans didn't technically raise taxes since the bush tax cuts expired on january 1st. he was on with our andrea mitchell today. look at what he had to say. >> no republican voted for tax increase. what happened was obama had the damocles over the people with the tax increase over the next decade that would happen automatically. the republicans are quite clear. they want the tax cuts extended for everyone. the...
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grover norquist has said voting for this is not a tax increase because the taxes are technically higher right now and this would actually be a tax cut, so -- >> but didn't you think the whole thing was sort of a joke? i mean, when you parse that kind of stuff, oh, it's not really -- i mean, really? really? >> i know the republicans for decades have been burned whenever they've gone and raised taxes and they've been promised spending cuts and they never materialize. so, this is a very, very sore spot for republicans. they don't want to have to vote for a tax increase and then not get anything in return on the spending side, and we have not seen any real kind of offer from the president on spending. and i think that that's where the rubber's really going to hit the road in a couple months. >> jonathan collegeo and. >>> right now secretary of state hillary clinton is said to be in good spirits, resting comfortably in a new york hospital, undergoing treatment for a blood clot. doctors told us yesterday that that clot is located in a vein between her skull and her brain, just behind her righ
grover norquist has said voting for this is not a tax increase because the taxes are technically higher right now and this would actually be a tax cut, so -- >> but didn't you think the whole thing was sort of a joke? i mean, when you parse that kind of stuff, oh, it's not really -- i mean, really? really? >> i know the republicans for decades have been burned whenever they've gone and raised taxes and they've been promised spending cuts and they never materialize. so, this is a...
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norquist and unfortunately the tea party has been distorted. i took a little opportunity today to read about the historic i think 1773 when the tea partiers, boston tea partiers threw tea into the boston harbor. they were fighting for the colonies, for our independence, fighting for america. what are the tea party advocates fighting for now, that's not america. to see our economy troubled by the fact that the markets are nervous about going over this slippery slope. if that doesn't touch your heart on middle class americans seeing their tax bill go up enormously or $109 billion in immediate cuts in places where we probably can't cut. we cut $1.2 trillion and if i can say this one point, can you believe it on this day as we are looking for a solution someone has come up with the idea, i'm not going to raise the debt ceiling unless you give me another $1.2 trillion in cuts in medicare. let's stop the one upsmanship. i'm ready to vote on sunday to make it work and to make it work with a compromise. let's come tocchet and we can do this job. >> all
norquist and unfortunately the tea party has been distorted. i took a little opportunity today to read about the historic i think 1773 when the tea partiers, boston tea partiers threw tea into the boston harbor. they were fighting for the colonies, for our independence, fighting for america. what are the tea party advocates fighting for now, that's not america. to see our economy troubled by the fact that the markets are nervous about going over this slippery slope. if that doesn't touch your...
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i think we feel good, but the republicans are going to have to ask the question do they represent grover norquist or the tea party or do they represent the american people is this we will have to ask the question whether or not we will be ultimately held hostage on the debt ceiling toop or heinous spending cuts that will impact the most vulnerable of americans. what are the republicans' intentions? will they vote on this and work in a bipartisan manner in this as we move towards the question of lifting the debt ceiling? what i think speaker boehner will have to do in his mind, he will be looking to craft out how many votes that he will have leaning on democrats. maybe his first approach will be how many republicans he can have to pass it. they will begin be unhappy and not want to be clab rattive and want to be obstructionist. that will be his challenge as to whether or not he can lead a number of his members to make the decision to vote on what has been a strained negotiations and whether or not we can do it on behalf of the american people. >> congresswoman, thank you very much. i know
i think we feel good, but the republicans are going to have to ask the question do they represent grover norquist or the tea party or do they represent the american people is this we will have to ask the question whether or not we will be ultimately held hostage on the debt ceiling toop or heinous spending cuts that will impact the most vulnerable of americans. what are the republicans' intentions? will they vote on this and work in a bipartisan manner in this as we move towards the question of...
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the truth is, and grover norquist has said this, sort of the high priest of republican economics and the tea party, they want to starve the government. they want to shred the social safety net. they lost the last election. they lost the last century. they'd like to repeal much of the new deal, much of the great society, get rid of hk reform. but secondly, the hypocrisy, and jared is right about this, is extraordinary. where did most of this debt come from? it came from bush's two unfunded wars, from an unfunded medicare prescription drug benefit, from the decision that -- the set of decisions that led to the bush economic collapse in 2008. if you put all that together, that's responsible for most of this debt. and by the way, the people who are now talking about spending cuts and we really have to reduce the size of government were the folks who brought us all that. >> but are you saying that as a political matter they're aware of the concern that exists among their constituents, people who call a talk radio program like mine, and they are using that as a subterfuge to get to what th
the truth is, and grover norquist has said this, sort of the high priest of republican economics and the tea party, they want to starve the government. they want to shred the social safety net. they lost the last election. they lost the last century. they'd like to repeal much of the new deal, much of the great society, get rid of hk reform. but secondly, the hypocrisy, and jared is right about this, is extraordinary. where did most of this debt come from? it came from bush's two unfunded wars,...
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grover norquist has absolved them and said voting for this today is not voting for a tax increase of any time, even though you're restoring some of the top rates. i think they'll get pretty fwar that argument. they're going to need to deliver some more in 2013. it's going to be difficult. again, they're convinced that when we come back to the debt limit increase, that we're going to have another discussion of entitlement reform. well, they have given up and lost a couple of big chances for entitlement reform. the best scenario they probably have had so far in the obama presidency was that summer in 2011 where the white house was surprised at every turn how far they were willing to go on demands with the debt limit. they didn't get entitlement reform then. they didn't get the super committee. they're not looking at a slightly smaller republican house majority and a slightly larger democratic senate majority cobbling some sort of entitlement reform coalition there in just two months. and i think they're going to have to -- there are going to be a lot of republicans telling their primar
grover norquist has absolved them and said voting for this today is not voting for a tax increase of any time, even though you're restoring some of the top rates. i think they'll get pretty fwar that argument. they're going to need to deliver some more in 2013. it's going to be difficult. again, they're convinced that when we come back to the debt limit increase, that we're going to have another discussion of entitlement reform. well, they have given up and lost a couple of big chances for...
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allow their members to observe the grover norquist pledge and not raise taxes, which means they can't vote before midnight tomorrow to raise taxes. they could easily do that when the calendar turns into the next year. they could do that at any point, be consistent with their pledge and kind of walk away with their chins high. again, presumably observing some sort of line that the president supports about tax increases or in that case not having tax cuts for a few of the upper percentage taxpayers. that's something, again, that doesn't violate any republican pledge, so i think as a practical matter, and we heard this when plan "b" was pulled by speaker boehner, the perception is they can't allow themselves to vote for a tax increase. they don't want to get primaried, but come the new year they have an out which allows them to actually cut a deal. mitch mcconnell i think heinz what he says that he wants to get something done because they don't want to see the economy go into a tailspin. they read the same polls that you and i read which is that the president comes out way ahead these da
allow their members to observe the grover norquist pledge and not raise taxes, which means they can't vote before midnight tomorrow to raise taxes. they could easily do that when the calendar turns into the next year. they could do that at any point, be consistent with their pledge and kind of walk away with their chins high. again, presumably observing some sort of line that the president supports about tax increases or in that case not having tax cuts for a few of the upper percentage...
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the democrats don't have a grover norquist that threat, the caucus if they even think about voting for taxes. i do think the u.s. public has seen the differences between the parties. >> i think a lot of people and certainly a lot of our viewers would agree with you on that. it's not necessarily equal blame right now. congresswoman bass, you have a safe trip back over to washington, d.c. and absolutely good luck over there. and if i don't talk to you again before next week, happy new year to you. >> happy new year to you as well. >> all right. and with an in-depth look at what all this cliff dwelling means, our nation's fiscal health, brian mcguinness is president of the committee for responsible federal budget and head of the fix the debt campaign. and i know this has to just be driving you crazy to be listening to some of these conversations that we have been having this morning. so how disappointing is it to you to hear about a possible small deal that keeps taxes from going up, which is a good thing for all americans maybe next week, but what does that do for this country's long-ter
the democrats don't have a grover norquist that threat, the caucus if they even think about voting for taxes. i do think the u.s. public has seen the differences between the parties. >> i think a lot of people and certainly a lot of our viewers would agree with you on that. it's not necessarily equal blame right now. congresswoman bass, you have a safe trip back over to washington, d.c. and absolutely good luck over there. and if i don't talk to you again before next week, happy new year...
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he took the grover norquist pledge. he did all the things that were required of a potential republican nominee. but in each of those steps, he made it harder for him to win a general election. and he brought to this some strengths. the other thing that will the president four years ago was that romney was the likely nominee because i believe in the theory of opposites. whoever the incumbent is, people are looking for the brevity, not the replica. and romney would represent a stark difference from obama, a businessman, grounded, not a visionary, not an order for. >> so you thought he would be the nominee. you thought that through the whole entire primary process? >> i had a few moments of doubt, as i suspect he may have. but he got to those moments was to do what i said, to move to the right. with each step, i think he made himself more vulnerable. in the abstract, his profile as a businessman will stay positive, even until the final day. it was the concept of a businessman who knows how to create jobs and so on. that wa
he took the grover norquist pledge. he did all the things that were required of a potential republican nominee. but in each of those steps, he made it harder for him to win a general election. and he brought to this some strengths. the other thing that will the president four years ago was that romney was the likely nominee because i believe in the theory of opposites. whoever the incumbent is, people are looking for the brevity, not the replica. and romney would represent a stark difference...